Robert L.

Level 5 Contributor

Contributor Level

Total Points

About Me

I'm 79, been around. I invent, and have over 150 in a drawer, if anyone is interested in dealing with those...? I'm a published author with 3 yrs editing experience on the OSU Journal. I homesteaded in Oregon and raised a family there. I'm retired now but still make jewelry to sell, fix things endlessly, Love my wife and 9 cats, keep a garden jungle in the Big Easy.

How I Can Help

In auto body for 36 years, metal, painting & mechanics. A Homesteader now living in the Big Easy; Artist in many media with several awards: Fine Art - watercolor & acrylics, with work hanging in the Salem, OR Governor's office, sold many hundreds of paintings; Sculptor - fired clay, took the Sweepstakes at the Ventura County Fair, 1975, and sold my works in my own store for 6 years; Jewelry: hand crafted, I have literally thousands of pieces out in the world; published author and editor


Reading & writing; Animals; Fixing things; Inventing; Subatomic physics/the nitty-gritties of things

60 Reviews by Robert


Absolutely Do Not Buy From this Site.

Moicloth is definitely a Scam site.

They (or more likely just one He) robbed me of $69.95 on an AC that never came. I am now in the process of going to the police Cyber Crimes, and FBI Internet Fraud divisions to file criminal charges. Plus filling a complaint with the internet domain Registrar.
Then once that gets going I'm going to sue Moicloth for the $69.95, plus lawyer fees, court costs, filing fees, document fees, copy fees, 5 months of my time, Stress... which is what everyone caught up by this scam needs to do to stop it. The FCC being worthless, having been swallowed by the FTC, where they talk big but do nothing, and you can only file an "informal complaint" even more worthless than complaining to the joke being perpetrated on the public called The BBB!

That's too long a story, but here's the gist of how they work:
They get your $, and send a tracking #, with warning it takes awhile... which is only the first stalling ploy. A month goes buy, and some worthless little trinket arrives (see other sites reviews). After a week or 10 days without a reply, if you're persistent enough, they say Sorry mistake, would you like to reorder? Another month goes by, tracking again says it's arrived, but it doesn't. Another week of ragging on them gets, "So Sorry, package lost in transit. Would you like to reorder or get a refund?" A third reorder only wastes another month, which now comes to 5. Demanding a refund gets, "We only refund 50%" You can bargain that but never get it all even promised, which is only another stalling tactic anyway, as you are not going to get Any money back.

The email at the site is bogus.
The phone # only rings, for an hour if you let it.
The address in Alabama is a barn, according to Google maps.
The address at the bogus site in WA belongs to the company that set up their site, not Moicloth.

They are extremely careful to never give out any names, even when asked specifically, not even that of the shipping carrier once in the US, because there isn't any.

I believe this is only one man, not a whole company. Every reply, a lot over 5 months time, even though from two different ones of their 4 e-mail addresses, (1 of which is just bogus) is written by the same hand, same grammar, all the typical esl mistakes.

There are few reviews on Moicloth, but not one of them, outside of those 2 or 3 at the site, are positive. The place has been in business less than a year, but any legit outfit would have generated more reviews than 6 or 7, spread over three review sites, and at least the major portion of them would be good, or at least nothing more than quibbling.

If you would like to have more info on Moicloth go to:

[https :// hebertpark. Com/moicloth]

And look at "Who is" where I got an entire rundown on the site, the domain stats, Registration stats (more than you can imagine are "Anonymize" including the e-mail given to the Registrar! And a lot more. It's eye opening.
This is the first line:
The manager from this e-commerce store convently made just about all purchaser information hidden behind a proxy.
And check these tid-bits out:... clientTransferProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: Privacy Administrator
Registrant Organization: Anonymize, Inc.
Registrant Street: 1100 Bellevue Way NE, Ste 8A-601
Registrant City: Bellevue
Registrant State/Province: WA
Registrant Postal Code: 98004

So even the address given to the Registrar is bogus.

Moicloth is run by some criminal then, and "Caveat emptor" is in full force here.

The screenshots below show a tracking where it's claimed the parcel was "Lost." But Three times? Right. One is the search for the "cord" at Moicloth site, which he claimed was sent by "mistake" but that they don't even sell. And one is for shipping, dates, and other info.

Tip for consumers:
Simply don't go to this site At All, and tell your friends, relatives, and neighbors to stay away as well.

Products used:
None. Nothing was ever delivered.


Don't! It's a "Mining The Internet" scam.

Or at any of at least a dozen url's that contain the word "Innovation," or "Innovation Challenge."

The following is long and involved; so for those of you that would rather, I have included a short synopsis at the bottom.

I was studying these ppl (amongst others) to see who and what they are, and if I might want to send them something myself. You might see in my profile that (amongst other hats) I'm an inventor.
But it's "Us" and "Our" with No answers at all to the obvious question, "What do I get out of this?" except cozens that you will be "Challenged" and part of the Team to Save The World. Everything is Join to help US create a better future, and Join to help stop Covid-19, a cynical and obvious ploy.
I searched the internet for reviews, and found Only employees, all 4+ stars, and some "Innovation School" (connected to them) student reviews from Bangladesh! All totally Negative.
NOTE that the following paragraphs are written as if it's with English as a Second Language. I have yet to find their source country (as well), but considering the above you can pretty much bet it's Bangladesh. That's pretty irritating itself, yet actually quite telling, when you find that most of the Philips url addresses start with "usa" dot. Why? No American company ever starts with that. Why is because it's another cozen to make you believe they Are American. Well sorry Philips, I'm not buying it.

My comments on all this are in parentheses (). They are all the way through what you will find behind this button: Their propaganda.

Once you get there you'll find the button below (here) can Only be used if you JOIN. One of the reasons, besides that there simply isn't any, that I couldn't find any background (or any other) info on these people except their own.

Philips users can download specific guideline for Philips users here.

(Notice the bad English: "Philips users" used twice in the same sentence, and "guideline" with no plural)

(This next is their come-on):

About SPICE & Frequently Asked Questions (no punctuation here, and missing words)
Sourcing Program for Innovation & Collaborative Entrepreneurship

(And "Sourcing" is certainly right! This "Program" is their source of new products. As far as I can see their only source; so if you get hooked into this, you too will be amongst those suckers they've ripped for another of their hundreds, maybe thousands of products they sell)

The Philips SPICE program aims to identify innovation opportunities and initiate innovation collaboration with several different innovation players: Philips existing suppliers, new potential suppliers (e.g. SMEs or startups), (their parentheses) research institutes, universities, or individual inventors...

(Which is a lie. See below, where they say/admit only THEIR people see what is sent to them. Also notice how the "players" are all after the first "Philips" ["Spice" being just obfuscation] such that after the colon they are all lumped together in a way you won't notice; turning everything after that into "innovators," purposely getting the name Philips in there first, (a cozen) except that is "suppliers" (jobbers) i. E. just more innovators, and not the first, actual Philips. Thus read that way it's Philips plus all the others, but their intention by wording it this way is to fool you into thinking Philips is only a lowly part of a much bigger whole. Then the sentence ends with an ellipse, as if there were more they could have mentioned but didn't. All very clever, but I was an English major and better at reading these things than they are at writing them)

(Now here's more obfuscation/confusion factor: it's now "portal" instead of Spice, and "Innovation Challenges" with "roadmap" are newly thrown in)

Philips posts on this portal "Innovation Challenges" related to our new innovation roadmap. (And the invitation come-on) External users are invited to propose ideas, solutions, new technologies, products and/or services responding to these challenges.
(Ya! Be Challenged! Followed by a confusion factor, which is in the same paragraph, Not cut by this interruption, to make it less obvious)
Please be aware that you should only post non-confidential material. This will allow us to avoid the risk of IP contamination for both parties
(notice "both." If there were actually more than two it would be all. And I wonder if Philips hands out stars and smiley faces to the winners of this "Challenge," they certainly don't give anything else)

SPICE Process at a glance:

Your innovation ideas will be reviewed by the specific Innovation Challenge owners (but who is that? This is Gobbledygook; intimating outsiders, but they have just said above it's Philips)
Relevant ideas will also be exposed to a broad community (And here it is again with "broad," only to be negated by): of Philips innovators to identify all possible collaboration opportunities within Philips.
("within" Philips. Again followed by a confusion factor):

You will be able to follow the status of your innovations.
(Ya? Big deal and so what? It no longer belongs to you, it belongs to Philips)

You have great innovations that help improve people lives? Whether you are a company with new technology, an individual inventor, a university, a start-up, a medical care provider Let's team up!
(This is a repeat, but notice here in this paragraph they have clarified that all on this list are Not people that might be interested in taking up your innovation and using it, as repeatedly intimated. They are relegated to being Contributors by including them under the first sentence, making them innovators. So who does that leave: innovators and Philips)

With this SPICE supplier (supplier? More gobbledygook) and open innovation platform we will help you connect to the diverse research, development, clinical and business teams within Philips that could help make your invention part of a larger health and well being solution.

(Notice, Again, the intimation that there are many more people involved by the use of "open," "diverse," and a list of four different types of businesses; but with the disclaimer "within Philips" hidden in the middle of a very long sentence. Read it over ignoring the italics and you'll see what I mean)

SPICE is a large community of innovators, with 1000's of new innovation opportunities and already hundreds of successful innovation projects... Join the community!

(Again intimating more than just Philips, but notice none but "innovators" are mentioned this time, even tho there is a long list above. That is designed to make a prospect think that they are going to be a part of something Big,..."large," "community," "1000's"... but the community is actually nothing more than the "innovators" they've already roped in, and Philips. The word "opportunities" is there to intimate, Again, that there are other, outside people, who will snap up your innovation, etc. But those "hundreds of successful innovation projects" are not yours, nor any outside people or companies that will never see them; (see the 3rd paragraph down from here) so who does that leave: Philips. In other words, you get to follow along, ("the status of," 4 paragraphs up) watching Philips make money off of the "project" you "innovated" for them, while "collaborating" (also 4 paragraphs up) the entire time, (meaning you're on call for when they don't understand something) so they can suck the very last innovation out of you, or possibly even get Another one, if you're stupid enough)

Yvan Davoust, Director Procurement & SPICE program

(Notice there is no "of," and does that name look American to you?)

(Now here comes their heavy disclaimers)

On average 10% of the innovation ideas submitted on SPICE lead to a deep dive and specific feasibility assessment in one of Philips businesses, and half of those are actually implemented in collaboration (5% are actually taken up, and require collaboration) with the innovator as part of a Philips product or solution. (And there it is: a Philips product)
Your idea might anyhow not always fit with Philips strategy and portfolio in which case we will do our best to answer you as fast as possible to let you pursue other ways to develop your innovation.

(Telling you if not THEM in this thing, you're out, which is the real proof that there Are no other connections. All the paragraphs above this are designed to suck you in, and obfuscate the real fact that this is nothing more than a clever plan to mine the internet for free grabs)

(And finally, the actual truth)
Your innovations and related comments will be only visible to you and Philips employees and not to other supplier or external parties.
(Which proves what I've been telling you: your inventions, innovations, and ideas are not going to be seen by Anyone but Philips. Also, and comically, that line can be found elsewhere followed by the addition that, "This can be a plus," trying to spin doctor it after they admit your submission will never be seen by the very people you came to them hoping to connect with!)

(And then the same confusion paragraph again)
Please remember that only non-confidential information shall be exchanged on the portal. If your idea is confidential, you shall only submit a teaser that does not reveal the inventive principle. We will then follow up once proper confidentiality arrangements have been agreed.
(i. E. once you've signed a contract)

(And here's where they admit the "specific Innovation Challenge owners" are none other than... Philips!)

You will receive a notification that your idea has been submitted and is under revision by our community manager. Once the community manager will approve it, it will be visible to all Philips employees and the process will start. You will be notified by email once the idea/solution is taken for further consideration or assessment. You can also review your idea via the Dashboard page to check how many people have seen it (100% Philips employees) and get real time feedback on the way inventiveness, feasibility or relevance to Philips is perceived by the community.
("the community," so carefully worded, Again using "the" instead of "our" to intimate outside ppl are involved. Notice also above this at, "Once the community manager will approve it..." This is another proof of these ppl not understanding English. They were trying to say that the manager Will approve your, etc., because that is another cozen, but they turned it into a double of the same tense. Present. When the "Once" in the beginning makes it past tense. The proper use is, "has approved")


Well readers this has been rather tedious, having to take apart the only info sheet on them I could find, (there are actually hundreds, but they are all total BS like this one) and I apologize for that. So here's the quick recap I promised up front:

If you go to these people, and are chosen, you will have to sign a contract that says they owe you absolutely nothing; your idea becomes their property, yet you will still be on call for the next year or so in case you have to straighten them out on anything they don't understand. In addition you can count on them to pump you for anything else they can get while they still have you on a string.

So that's it. No stars for Philips. They are nothing more than mining the internet for free grabs.


Tip for consumers:
Philips is an International Corporation, with branches in every country you can think of. They are Big, and as is usual with that dishonest as well. Avoid then where you can.


I worked for ten years right next door to Mayflower moving in the San Fernando Valley CA. The first thing noticeable was that they hire "bruiser" types, almost all Mexicans, who don't stay working for them long. Make your own conclusions about that, but in my book this points to workers that don't care. The other very suspicious thing was that three or four times a year they held auctions there to sell people's stored belongings. There was always a parking lot full! Ask why people would abandon their valuable property? Obviously they wouldn't, voluntarily. The only answer possible to that is they could no longer afford to redeem them. I came then to find out that Mayfair's cost "escalates" past what people are lead to believe they will be, and when they can't, or won't pay, Mayfair attaches their goods, and sells them later. They Are a very old company, but I still advise caution in dealing with them, such as "Read Everything Before doing Anything," and be sure you understand! Before hiring them.


I bought from them before, and all was well with shipping and the product (thus the 4 rating) but they are very high priced, and I decided not to buy from them again.


Their Ad Lies!

This place is truly Bogus. Free Free Free! Three times their ad says Get your IQ test for free, but the Results cost 20 Bucks!
See the Screen Shot #1.

They hide this fact until the very bottom, in fine print, after their multiplicity of buttons that say Take Your Test Now!

Their name: BMI Certified IQ Test:
Is a lie.
There is nothing "Certified" about them. They are certainly not certified, and their test is not certified, it is Verified, and by Them!
See Screen Shot #2 from Quora.

As if that's not enough to anger you, that same ad says it takes 3 minutes. Inside it's actually 20 minutes.
Screen Shot #1 again.

Their ad squeezes in "Best" and "online" test, but Mensa and others of their ilk say there's nothing best about online as it skews the results and tests nothing but your online capabilities.

Their whole name is right out of Hollywood: "Brain Metrics Initiative"
"Brain" of course sets you up. That's the hook. It makes you automatically tie it with IQ, (and that's what you want to find out) as well as make you think they just might be somebody along those lines. It's a clever play on words, but it only works when it's associated with the others, and "Initiative"? What does that tie to? It certainly can't be that you or they are self-starters because that's meaningless. That leaves them trying to fool you into thinking they are tied somehow to the government. As in "government initiative". Except it's a private company! Hmm... Nice try, but...
So that leaves us with.? What the H has "Metrics" got to do with brain. People don't think in metrics. Studies on the brain have nothing to do with metrics. IQ tests have nothing to do with metrics. So that leaves the play on that word meaning it's a type of measurement.
Close, but no banana. What, your test scores measured in metrics? They use the metric scale to weigh the results? Cute: "Climb up here and we'll weigh your IQ."

I fell for their lies and got pissed. Of course I sent them a nasty email, (for which I got a robo return. What I deserved I suppose.) but at the same time I sent to the e-mag where I saw this ad, and was very pleased with their response. This was Nature, the Futures column, and the guy that sent back almost immediately was going, "OMG," and sent word of this to one of the higher ups; who just as quickly sent back, "Tell this man we're pulling the ad," ( ticket # 153609) and they Did! I checked today, just before writing this, and it's gone. Score one for the Good Guys!

This review is to score Two! Click my profile and read my review on "Trust Pilot" and you'll see why. TP is a review site where BMI brags they have an eight out of ten. A 4 star rating. At a site that Sells criminal thinking companies the ability to "Manage" their reviews.

I guess that's sufficient for this review: a word to the wise.


I LIKE THEM! is truly a well set up site. Credit where credit is due; They have tried to think of everything, and have done well at it. There is a very old ploy -- "We are the underdog, so we try harder!" The ancient Greeks knew this, and at least it's a more honest type of advertising propaganda, because it works both ways. Even tho they aren't using this, it applies, and We might as well take advantage of this fact while it lasts.

Wish is relatively new, and bucking the biggies like Alibaba - also Chinese - so take into consideration that Every product they sell is Chinese... Yes, I know, Everything is Chinese these days, but inured to this or not doesn't alter the fact that this is the cheap stuff. Keep that in mind. On the other hand, here we have a company where we can buy the Same product(s) for a Dollar, that have been imported (by someone else) to an American store (WallyWorld, et al) and marked up 2000%. No joke, no exaggeration.

This leads to the fact that these are individual sellers; so Every item has its own shipping cost attached. Multiple buys from one company are Not taken into account. So watch every item for it's Total price, not the price first and shipping later. Never fear tho, Everything they sell is pennies on the dollar compared to other online stores and especially American prices, so shipping included it's still far better, and they have literally thousands of items.

Their Search works (wonder upon wonder) but don't be too specific! Fair Warning. And be prepared to do a ton of scrolling. The reason is so many sellers. For any item there will be a long list. Pick and choose of course, but make a list of your own (or possibly use their wish list?) so you can find your way back to your items of interest while you are still shopping/comparing. I mean this for the list you are now scrolling thru, as to where to look: item, price, seller, adjoining ads, how far up the list, etc. Because what you Don't Do! Is click on one as if to buy it, then do not. Don't use search for his either. Make Your Own List!

Why? Because they are Tricky!
I'm not sure if this is over competition or what, but if you do line up a buy (which has to be done One At A Time) and then not complete it, That Item Disappears! You can no longer find it on the list you were just scrolling thru, in search, or anywhere. You will find others just like it, but from different sellers, and not That one. Worse. From then on every one you do find will be Higher Priced! This is not a mistake. I tried this over and over to be sure. I suppose this is their thinking: That they now know you Want that item, and that given, you will pay a higher price for one, when you can no longer find the one you backed out of. So why offer it again. The only way out of this I have found is to get completely out of Wish. Kill recent apps including the redundant ones in Chrome. So they no longer have any info for this search, Then, Walla! Your item is there again. And mind you, this same thing goes for the promos. So Make Your Own List!

Which leads me to PROMOS:
They run from 10% to 50% and you won't know how much until you click one. Some will appear randomly on your accounts page, the Best ones, which Do say what they're worth, and there is even a promos button there. All the more reason not to need their app, or let them send to your phone & email. They are at your fingertips Anyway.
The rest pop up randomly while you're shopping. Especially just after you've visited your cart! Which means you used up That chance to use one (remember there's no going back or they punish you). But,
FAIR WARNING: Promo discounts are Only Good Twice!
This means (by my experience, and remember you must buy items one at a time) on Two Items Only, not the entire list, and you won't find this out until you try to use your promo a third time and get their "Oops!" flag. Except now you Do know!. Make your own list! Use your promos only on the high dollar items! Then you won't be tricked into using them up.

Personally I'm shopping Wish without the app. I don't like to have apps such as these when simply going to the site via Search, [or as I do -- keep the various buttons to them (Shop, Account, C. S., etc.) in gmail] is just as good. Why? For that single convenience of a button on your home page, you are connected to them 24-7; which costs you Data Minutes, uses storage and ram. You are Paying for them to send you endless ads and promos, To Your Phone, With Alerts! That can easily be confined to your email instead. Two clicks instead of one to save all that.

Without their app then my experience with Wish has been about 90% positive. Even the one refund was ½ good, as I learned that their cozen blurb, "We Have Your Back!" is true. They sent me my refund for a wrong item shipped, on my word with only pix of the wrapper and product, the next day! You can't say That for many companies. On top of that, I not only get to keep the wrong product, but their inner-communications Actually Work. I used their robo form, Wish Assistant, and the next day when Customer Service got back to me, they already knew Everything, and the refund was Done! I've never dealt with any site where this was so.

I LIKE THEM! Five Stars for


This is the email I sent to the producer of this game at ******* who didn't answer, of course.

Mikes World 2: Uninstalled, and down-rated my G-store review rating to two stars because of the pushy, unacceptable behavior of Ringing My Phone with Ads. It's one thing, acceptable, to place ads In Game, and that's expected, but I refuse the ringing of my phone as Rude, Greedy, and Bad Behavior. The game Compulsive went the same route, and were also uninstalled as a result. The same thing goes for all others I may happen on in the future. I also pass along this type of info to my friends and social pages acquaintances. Word of mouth pays, bad behavior slays.

This is a true shame, on you, because it's otherwise a good game, but as I'm sure you will find out before long, also costly, and I hope beyond the revenue your bad attitude brings you. Wise up guys! People all thru human history have rebelled when pushed too far.

Your excustomer,
Robert L.

So, no stars from me, Mikes World 2, and as an update... it turns out this site is now up for sale. And good riddance.

• Updated review

UPDATE # 3 - Aug. 17th.

After I read this goodg guys latest reply I realized how Comical this whole thing is. It's gotten so over-blown with extraneous garbage I thought maybe I should just delete all but the original review, but instead decided to leave it for your entertainment. ( ͡^ ͜ʖ^)

I applaud Mr Goodg for his apparent desire to continue (on & on) spin-doctoring the real truth. Camouflage for his desire to continue swindling people. But it's a doomed effort. The truth is here for people to see, and all this spin-doctoring only makes the falsehoods more apparent.

In his latest effort (below) the goodg claims, "I have no control over the ads that appear (on His site)," and then proceeds to blame Google! Is that a joke? Because there the thing IS! One of the most prominent features on his first page. The Bank ad for his admitted #1 sponsor, with the big 5 Star TrustPiolet logo on it. It's so prominent in fact the entire page design is arranged to deceive people into thinking that it's His five star rating; while here he is trying to tell us He didn't accept that ad, He didn't put it there, Google did! Then makes a liar out of himself by saying he has no knowledge of it, and can't find it! He even asks for directions to it. An obvious ploy. When I have already, very plainly, given that in my review so you readers can see this for yourselves... Because TrustPiolet is a sorry excuse for a review site that SELLS their customers the ability to alter their apparent review status. See my review here for the rest of the bad news on them.

So we get all these bogus disclaimers and transparent lies; then for his "proof" he offers Apples & Oranges! First a url to google's newest Ads feature, with a title that ends in, "Placement-and-Monetization-Choices." There, that means Choices Google's customers make, i. E. His, the goodg's choices. Then he follows this with a (one More) disclaimer that YOU should use caution, when he's talking about His Own Site! Well I would certainly take That advice.

This is followed by one of the biggest laughs in this whole thing. Referring back to the Bank ad (above), he states, This does "NOT" constitute an endorsement, of the bank. His admitted #1 Sponsor. Is that Back Peddling or what! The guy's squirming like an eel here. Now, because of this review, he begins to disclaim even his association with this bank (With their ad the most prominent thing on his front page), which anyone can understand now that they've been exposed.

Not to lose sight of the original intention of this review, I remind readers that this is a bank this site, "get out of debt dot com," sends people to (to buy consolidation loans) with his "Free Consultations" for the kick-back money. Notice that even tho he claims to have no association with this bank whatsoever, a patient lie, he never once denies he sends them customers, or that he makes money for doing so. (and where do You think he makes his money?) Instead his entire first paragraph. Like all of it. Boils down to apples and oranges comparisons, and a disclaimer. Both designed to be obfuscation.

Comically (as well) his next statement is that he, "followed the advice from Sitejabber" (misspelling it in the process), when in truth he did the exact opposite. They warn (here) "Responding to bad reviews may open a can of worms better left alone," ( ʖ̯) But, obvious glutton for punishment that he is, he hard charges ahead anyway, and with nothing more than repeats (over and over!) of how he wants people, "to be presented with a different point of view," which is of course his own.

Well there you have it!

All in all then this leaves the original review as the only meaningful piece in this, but do enjoy the comedy as well.

Steve R. – Get Out of Debt Guy Rep

The reviewer mentioned but I have nothing to do with that site. I believe he meant The reviewer continues to make mention of some advertisement with something regarding TrustPilot and some bank advertisement. As I believe I previously explained, the advertisement Google displays are based on a number of factors out of the sites control. When I visit the site I do not see those advertisements mentioned but that does not mean the reviewer is not. Ads displayed by Google vary greatly by the visitor.

As Google says: <>
"Reasons you might see an ad

Your info:
Info in your Google Account, like your age range and gender
Your general location

Your activity:
Your current search query
Previous search activity
Your activity while you were signed in to Google
Your previous interactions with ads
Types of websites you visit
Types of mobile app activity on your device
Your activity on another device

Other info:
The time of day
Info you gave to an advertiser, like if you signed up for a newsletter with your email address"

The reviewer mentioned I misspelled SiteJabber in my response. If I did, apologies. My quote from Sitejabber was from which is the same page the reviewer response quote is from. That page has FAQs for responding to reviews. See "Should I write a public response to a review." On the same page Sitejabber says "How should I respond to a negative review? Admittedly, this is much harder than responding to a positive review but if you can respond directly to the customer’s experience and any changes you may have made as a result, this could go far in earning trust and a second chance.

It’s painful to get a negative review, especially if you run a small business. It can even feel like a personal attack. On the positive side, by engaging your reviewer and establishing a real human connection, you can often help the situation and perhaps even change the customer’s mind. We’ve seen time and again positive outcomes from positive, proactive businesses owners engaging grumpy customers. You’d be surprised how often a polite response to a bad review can result in the reviewer giving your business a second chance.

A note of caution: if a reviewer perceives your response to be condescending, rude or insincere, it’s possible they will get angry and further spread their review all over the internet."

If the reviewer, or anyone, has interpreted my response as condescending, rude, or insincere; that is certainly not my intention and was not written in anger. My responses are directed to responding to the criticism from my point of view. I certainly understand the reviewer may have both an alternative point of view and only people reading this page can ultimately reach their own opinion.

Steve Rhode

UPDATE - This Site Has Been Lowered To Zero Stars!
• Previous review

UPDATE - This Site Has Been Lowered to Zero Stars!

June 20th.
Oh man... This guy should Never have challenged me!
He's the "Goodg"... the GetOutOfDebtGuy, but I'm the "ARE! G"... the Always Read Everything! Guy, and boy did I dig up some DIRT on this goodg guy and his site.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt with 3 stars, figuring he wasn't much different than the other mass of sites like this that infest the internet. But I was wrong. This Guy Is A Menace To Society!
Sitejabber warns against challenging a bad review, but apparently this goodg doesn't read well enough to understand that. So let's take what he claims in his Reply (see it below) in order:

His first challenge is that my review, "seems to be in error," that his site, "does not have anything on it about TrustPiolet or managing any sort of rating. I wonder if the reviewer got us (there's no "us," only him, unless you want to include his partner "Consolidated Credit") confused with a different site."

Confused? Nice wording for a cozen, (credit where credit is due) but the goodg is the one who is confused. Look for yourselves. Go to the site. Or search:

There's more than one way to find this. Right there on his front page... there's his #1 "Sponsor". "Consolidated Credit" (a Bank, but there's "no loans made from this site") with a big ad, the entire corner of which says, "TrustPiolet" and has 5 large golden Stars under it.
Now read my review, here, on this criminal outfit and you'll see why I wrote this into my review. Need any more proof? Search: complaints & review for the one from TrustPiolet, and There it is. But don't tell the goodg, he doesn't know anything about it.

And did I say his Answers, Counseling, and Advice are canned? You bet I did. I asked a few questions onsite, looked at some of his "advice"... Click a few buttons and here's what you'll find:
"Budget Your Money"
ADs! "Sponsored" ads, All of them. 12 in a row, each and every one nothing but sets (dozens) of search links to his sponsors.
"Making Money" button... same exact thing, except These Go To Scam Sites!
"Work From Home. Start Now-Earn An Extra 3K Per Week" Ya, Right. Click my profile and take a look at a few of my reviews on sites that tout making Fast Money.

He mentions his too cool association with "".
Oh really? Go there. Read this article:
" Beware Steve Rhode (the goodg) And June 13,2010... This company is a fraud Internet.
Here it is, check it out:

Then while you're there, just below that is:
The & Steve Rhode FAQ
"Steve Rhode and had a previous Scam...

But to stay in order I've got to go to the loans:
"The site does not make loans... and I give away books... sells no consultations or counseling."

So let's look into this. He does not deny the affiliated Bank sells consolidation loans. His #1 "Sponsor". Only that he does not. And what does my review say. That I doubt this site gives loans themselves... but almost comically the goodg goes on to post a button that rats him off on this; the "terms," the Fine Print he expects no one will actually read, where it states unequivocally that he gets money from his sponsors, his "Sponsored" ad affiliates. And now look at his front page!
"Best Loans," "Consolidate Your Debt," "Get Your Free Consultation Today!" in the ad bar at the bottom.
Well of Course the consultation is free; that's how they talk people into taking out the loan. And where do they get this consultation? Take a guess. There's nothing But loan ads. "Credit Repair" "Student Loans" "Debt Settlement" plastered all over the page.
This Goodg is a Shill for them, and he wants us to think he doesn't get Paid?
Read on. Scroll down past the phone #... "FHA LOAN" "Tax Appeal" "Money Loans" (another site to.)"Help You".
Go down some more. Past the "Ask the Goodg" button (which is 3 old questions, with button/preinstalled answers) and you'll see:
"Top 3 Consolidation Firms" "Top 10 Debt Consolidation" another "Free Consultation" + more. Every segment of any title has another set of these ads - all the same - all selling Loans. This guy is a liar! Loans Do originate from this site, and there's no way he's going to make me believe he's not profiting from it.
But don't take my word for it; after his statement, "The biggest issue is if someone objects to the free advice..." trying to make it sound as if there are No Issues with this site left, after he's dismissed the ones above... but let's just look online to see about That. Search: complaints:

Right under the Goodg's many ads and cozens. That are there to try and spin doctor the following. (and please excuse the contraction, "" as writing all that out is tedious):

"Ripoff Report | Steve Rhode - Complaint..."
From: "Ripoff Report > Scottsdale-Arizona-8..."
"Steve Rhode-G O O goodguy Sells Private Information To..."

"Ripoff Report | (ditto above)--Washington... goodg Steve Rhode Bait and a Switch, B. S. Fraud Washington DC..."

"G O O - Beware, Review 392611 | Complaints Board
Nov 13,2015 · Consumer Complaints and reviews about · Beware · Products..."

"Pissed Consumer
Aug 23,2011... Steve Rhode G O O is a liar journalist. I live near..."

"Scam Alert:
Aug 8,2016
GOODG Steve Rhode's Using Cookies to Trap You For Life, by Paul J Paquin - CEO at Golden Financial - states:... 3rd party advertising and tracking firms such as on Steve Rhode's website..."

"Public Citizen > documents:
Apr 14,2017
Verified complaint for Declaratory Judgment..."

On and On... I quit on the third page of these. There are at least ten more... So this goodg guy wants to cross swords with me, I'm ready!

Zero Stars For the Goodg and his Ripoff site!

Steve R. – Get Out of Debt Guy Rep

I applaud Robert and his apparent desire to assist consumers. The world needs more consumer advocates. It appears a number of his concerns or at least the images he describes he saw on the site, surround advertisements that appear on the site. I have no control over the ads that appear and that is determined by Google, based on whatever magic they use. Just recently Google added some more auto selection features. See As I say in the site terms, "Site visitors should exercise the same level of caution when selecting a merchant or provider from links or advertisements on this site as they would if they found the link elsewhere. The fact that an ad appears and is linked is NOT an endorsement from this site." -

In responding to the initial review from Robert I followed the advice from SiteJabber. In their FAQ they said, "Should I write a public response to a review? Definitely! Public comments are a way for website owners to add a helpful comment to a customer’s review. Perhaps more importantly, responding publicly also shows other potential customers that you value their feedback and that you’re always striving to improve."

I attempted to be as helpful as possible and present a different side of the concerns raised to allow any reader to be presented with a different point of view.

Robert is right, I'm not aware of a Trustpilot complaint and if someone could provide the link to it I'd be happy to respond to it as I have with all the other issues people have posted. You can go to those complaints and read my response to them.

If there is no response, at least one of those sites have posted information and will not approve my comments to respond and provide my side of the story.

As I say on the website, "This Site is Better When You Participate." I welcome all people to come and provide helpful information if you felt my advice was missing something or you want to add something to a reader question. The comment section is open.

I also welcome Robert or anyone else to go to and follow the link to contact me directly with any concerns they may have so we can talk directly.

Finally, if any post is in error or the advice is incorrect, I welcome the addition of any error correction you care to submit by going to so I can post your concern on a specific article so we can give the best advice possible information to readers. I always try to get the advice spot-on.

When a complaint is posted on the site about a company or someplace else about the site, there is a response to concerns and only by ingesting both the complaint and response can a consumer make a more educated decision. This is want any any company I may write about on the site to reply. See

By the way, I have no way to reply to the link for the Declaratory Judgment, on Please feel free to read that document which is actually Hassell v. Ava Bird and Yelp. If you read the entire document people can learn more about the issues and getting a better understanding of the full issue. Here is a Washington Post article that describes the Public Citizen defense of the website.

Steve Rhode
Get Out of Debt Guy

Please! Use Only in Absolute Need!
• Previous review

Please! Use Only in Absolute Need!

Review on

The very first thing I found against them when I went to this site, is they are flaunting a 5 star "TrustPiolet" review, (see my review here on Them) who do a lot of other things bordering on criminal, but they SELL the ability to "Manage" reviews to fake a 5 star rating. They should be put out of business, but that aside, I also found this sites URL dot of ". Org" is a ploy designed to make ppl think they have to be reputable. But are actually private and the government is not involved at all.
Two strikes toward Scam, but the real skinny on this is that there are likely many thousands of these places, and they don't Have to scam there's so much money in it.

It works like this:
They basically loan the money to pay off all the debt(s), make the payments (to Them now) lower, which adds to the amount owed (Their interest), and takes longer to pay off (so They get that interest percentage for a longer time). These are called "Consolidation" loans. Self explanatory.

But, In fact, l doubt this site makes any loans themselves. I didn't sign up for any to find out, but its easy enough to see those are most likely farmed out, because this "Get Out of Debt Guy," Steve, doesn't need it. He's too busy selling pre-prepared advice, Consultations, and Counseling, (by his computer) articles, books, et al, and taking his cut of the money from the customers he lines up for... (the onsite ad) "Consolidated Credit." Consolidated? As in, Consolidation loan? Go figure.

My advice of this review's title stands... Use only in absolute and immediate need, because these places cost you a Lot of money. The loan. And this site can only add more to that.

I'm still rating it 3 stars for mediocre, (and not less) simply because this site is not doing anything (at all, really) worse than the other thousands of them.

Steve R. – Get Out of Debt Guy Rep

Hi this is Steve from The review above seems to be in error. The site does not have anything on it about TrustPilot or managing any sort of rating. I wonder if the reviewer got us confused with a different site.

Another issue raised is that the site uses the. Org domain extension. It does. Since the site sells no products or services and it is entirely permissible to use the. Org as many companies do, including eBay, there is nothing nefarious about this. It's just a domain name that has been in the Myvesta family for years and years. You can see this article from 2011 for more information on this.

The site does not make loans and I give away all my books for free. I also don't sell any consultations or counseling.

And the site does have ads on it which I talk about extensively in

The biggest issue is If anyone objects to any of the free advice I have provided for readers, I welcome the feedback on the specific reader question in the comments section. Everyone does better when different factual points of view can be presented to readers so they can hear different sides of an issue.



I'm no novice at photo-voltaic systems. As a homesteader I've been there done that. Purchased the parts and built my own system ( Including hot water, which these ppl don't even sell) for $6,000; All the electricity for home And shop that anyone could want. My interest was in seeing how things compare today, so I checked this site out, and I didn't like what I saw.

First they treat you as a notice no matter what you click, and everything repeats endlessly. There is also this push that stays with you all the way for, "Free solar racking when you purchase a system," that is possibly more honest as the oxymoron it is, but the pix of this rack show a cheap solid frame. No tipping, no following, no nothing. A pile of bed-frame struts bolted together. And especially no Price on Anything! Even the button "Get in on the Sale," lead to a Long series of questions, the end of which was Not ok here's your price, it was a button to "Request Consultation!"

I must have clicked 35 buttons trying to find a price on anything at all, and what I got for my trouble was an endless, "Look at This" series of promos, the end of every one at the "price" was "Call." I tried the menu, I even clicked the shopping cart... same all the way down the line. (So why even Have a cart?)

I do not buy, or even consider buying, from ppl who hide their pricing! There's no way around it. If they are hiding they're price it's too high. Period.

Sorry Wholesale Solar, but no recommendation from one who knows these ropes. Two stars, and That's It!


I was fooled by their name I guess, and their sub-titles blurbs telling me I can get what I want from their list of "categories," but everything I was interested in had almost nothing behind it, no matter what I clicked. There's a jewelry making category, but I can't figure why. I clicked "wire" and they have three. Three! All steel. That's it! No brass, no copper... they don't even sell precious metals in any form. I clicked tools and they have ONE - a plain ordinary electrician's soldering iron. That's it! And that's $72!. Double what those are anywhere. So that they've got jewelry supplies is a joke. In fact they don't sell Anything I was looking for regardless of their come-on blurbs, and they're lucky I don't give them a Two star rating.
Thanks but No thanks online metals.


In fact, I didn't see one thing there that wasn't a lie; Phony time countdown ( to rush you) that resets itself..."Only 4 Left! Buy Now!

They tout themselves (because no one else is about to) as: "To Serve & Protect Natural Health Supplements," but by their own words - hidden Way down - they "may" get paid for publishing reviews and ads.

"May". Ya, Right. The reality is that their "reviews" ARE ads. What's more, they are very long, filed with Buzz words, and fool only the naivé. When you look at them in quantity it becomes obvious they cheap repetitious copy designed more to pump their standings at Google than to sell product. Just as bad, the products they push are themselves high dollar bogus junk.

Get this: PreJym - a pre-workout protein, 20 servings per bottle, at their "Buy Now" link is $70.95, PLUS an outrageous $28.84 shipping. The stuff is so ordinary it's not even worth the shipping cost, but their total is a hundred bucks! Five dollars for ONE serving of protein powder.

Better give this one a pass.
One Star for the "Supplement Police"


Consumer Reports magazine gives you the latest skinny on virtually anything you could want to buy. Tho they don't really rate things around money, there are some prices so you can pre-shop what you're looking for, already knowing what's best in all the categories that count.

There are also reports on bad stuff to watch out for... I just found the fire extinguisher we have posted as being in a recall. For all articles there are buttons that send you to more info about every item written up, plus pertinent info there, such as how and where to claim a replacement for my fire extinguisher.

CR is nonprofit, so they ask for donations and to sign up for the paper subscriptions a lot... and there is no search bar... but here's how you deal with that so you can read all this online for free: takes you there. Then click the CR logo at the top left. is the straight there url. Tho this says index there really is no menu to specific articles, but navigating around is easy enough with all those buttons, and if you click "View Current Issue" you can read the same reports as if you had the monthly paper mag.

Love this place And the idea behind it... 5 Stars for Consumer Reports!


Spyware Sold Openly Online!

"Its Like Having Their Phone!"

Are the first words in the ad for this site:
This is just one of many such sites, like this competitor (see my review on it here), that blatantly advertise and sell apps that install (and monitor) spying malware on other people's phones, and are Proud of this fact. Here are this sites next two lines:

* Monitor & Track ANY Android!
* 100% Undetectable!____________
Here's another one:

Spy on someone's
* Phone, SMS, Calls and More!
* Plugin free
* Track Every Activity Remotely and Secretly__________
Here's one more:

Ali m
Sells ready made spyware:
Spy/Agent/SpyAnywhere Suite,
SentryPC. KeystrokeSpy,
Stealth. SpyAgent...
And more.__________
You get the picture. Good Luck on what can be done.
(Except you can check out my review, here, on you might need it.)

Zero Stars for!


Wise Geek. Com,
A question and answer site.

As this site is reader written, I find the several Q & A articles I looked over typical of that. This is rather a syndrome across the board for this kind of site. (see also my review, here, on "Mother Earth Living," the e-magazine). It's that being human, people want recognition, and in print or other similar media that's more or less permanent, adding their own words, versions, and ideas also imparts a kind of low-key fame. This is almost irresistible online where they are being Asked to contribute what they "know". So when people see this opportunity presented to them in the here and now, they act on impulse.
This is the very reason there are so many sites (and other media) that use this ploy, and social pages are so popular. In fact, this is so true that many sites, such as Sitejabber, combine these two to take advantage of that doubling of their draw.

Take a quick skim-through of large numbers of reviews, comments, Q&A, etc. anywhere, and you will find that 90% of them are first timers. One time only. The result of this is either shallow answers, or worse, a long detailed answer that leads down the right path, but is incomplete; having some good facts, but others that are wrong, details, especially crucial ones left out, and etc.; leaving the readers with unanswered questions, many times more than they had before.

What causes this is the syndrome above leading ppl to Want to get their two-cents worth in, so they write about things they have not actually done, or have barely tried. They know something about it, probably book learning, it seems an easy task back of that, so they write. That's the shallow ones you find, (some possibly by more knowledgeable ppl who are just lazy or careless) but there are layers to this.

The more detailed ones, but still partly wrong, are from ppl who have a real interest, but of a temporary kind. They have tried it themselves, but without full knowledge; ("A little knowledge is a dangerous thing") not having taken the time to study/research enough first, and call self-taught good enough. Back of this they also only do this thing once. It worked, kinda sorta, so they feel accomplished. They can now say, "Been there, done that," there's no reason for further research or trials, and their public output reflects this.
This second type of person is likely the kind that wrote the Wise Geek answer to, "How can I make a quill pen?"

There is a third, maybe a forth layer, the true expert. But first a quick few of the things I read/saw in this answer to back up what I've said, (from the top so this can easily be checked out):

"Quill pens have been around for hundreds of years," backed by, "Two centuries ago...".

Actually it's thousands of years. Immediately after paper was invented, (which was Not the later plant origin, it was skin - vellum) the obvious answer to smearing charcoal was to wet it, (so it soaks in) and ink was invented. The obvious answer to ink was the pen...

Paragraph 4, "... make some additional cuts, (in a quill) one long but very shallow and the other, closer to the tip, shorter and a little deeper."

This is so confusing there is a request for clarification. What was meant was not deeper (probably) but less (or more?) angle. Either way, if this person - anonymous 108449 - had actually tried this, he/she would have found out that two cuts won't work. Nor will "long but very shallow."

Ink stays inside the quill only by surface tension, and is drained out by virtue of the split acting like a straw. Just the smallest open length too much, or a bump in the way, (the two corners made by the 2nd cut) the surface tension is overcome, and out dumps the ink. Even when cut correctly a jar or thump can do that. With the 30 or more quill pens I've made for my art endeavors this was made abundantly clear.
It's also not mentioned that the split must be long enough to reach up into the ink, nor that a tiny hole needs to be made at the top to feed the ink into the split, and keep it from splitting farther in use.

This goes on then to tout metal nibs. (in a DIY on quill pen making?) plus "Make your own ink" by buying "a Chinese ink stick..." that "... can last a lifetime."

This tells me this writer has only heard or read about this, with maybe a half-hearted try, for two reasons. First the description of various inks and how each one will work, (including the ink stick, which will not even vaguely "last a lifetime") is neither actually making your own, nor was it related/compared in any way to the actual manufacture of the true, basic original ink, which actually works best. This also carries over to the next segment.

Once again there's the buying of everything, (including Pens!) but most telling is the description of blots and sprays caused by "rough" paper, touting "smooth with a stiff finish" paper.

This ignores (doesn't know) that technique with a quill pen (always drawing, never pushing) overcomes this. If that simple basic rule had been discovered thru enough doing, That would have been written instead.

Then there are pix: every one of something purchased! And every one is or has metal. Where are the pens this author supposedly made? There are none, and the obvious conclusion is there never were any.

This is only one example of the several answers I perused, pretty much all alike, and what you should expect from reader-written sites. True, I didn't go real far, because after so many there's no reason to expect any truly expert answers anymore.
This is the very reason why the many sites of this type will never hold a candle to the third or forth layer sites. Those written and/or corrected by true experts, such as Wiki. There are several, Wiki being the largest ongoing one, and the reason these sites excel is their vetting.
Sites such as this one here are about money. The ads & etc. and do not pay, i. E. have any staff, that is any more expert than they are. This means the reader/writer combo must be self vetting, with the above results. The bottom line then is that these sites do nothing more than supply a platform, let their customers do all the work, and rake in the money. The real problem with this type of thing, for us, is that there are now thousands of them, and growing.

3 stars for quite ordinary, for Wise Geek. Com.


I've dealt in jewelry for decades and recognize many of this sites prices. It's classic costume jewelry. It comes from China, maybe a couple from India. I will say the stock is all very nice looking, but their photographer must be given huge credit in that.
Many buzz words are thrown in; Crystal, Topaz, Fire Opal & Zircon, but it's all glass. One says "Natural Fire Topaz." There is no such thing. These are externally coated glass, like "Swarinski crystal" to give it the fake rainbow effect, and will scratch off. Their "Silver and Gold" is the same. Notice every price is in the same $20 range, marked down from sixty. That's strictly for marketing, they pay the same dollar for all of them.

They get three stars for average back of the above, but since their items are all quite nice looking, shipping and that seems to be good, and they are not gouging more than normal, I'm going to add one more.


Really, Nothing More Needs To Be Said.

Click "Explore" and be Amazed.

Use "" if you're not a member.


Not to worry, this Scam Site is now Down.

Based in Australia, there are no controls from here, so still Beware. These people very likely still have other sites working.


Does Not Have What It Claims!

Mother Earth Living, and the old Mother Earth News, are the same magazine simply spread thinner. That's fact number one. From this you can see that the producers are a corporation interested in the money. Fact number two is that these magazines articles are Reader Written. Put these together and here's what you have:

A corporate entity interested in making money, expanded for that purpose to twice it's original size, Must have articles to fill their deadlines; since those are coming from the public and quotas Have to be met, quality is invariably sacrificed to quantity.

There are two facets to this as well. The writers of their articles are ordinary people, just like here at Sitejabber, Android Forum,... pick one You know, and you've experienced sifting thru the stupid comments, junk and BS to finally get a semi-answer to your reason for going there. In fact this is the very reason you're Here. To try and filter out all that. To go with this, the corporate producers of these magazines (and sites) are not experts either; so the result is that they take their best shot(s) and fill their pages with what is offered. Period. That's what you get.

I was homesteading when Mother Earth News first came out. I went, "Oh boy! Here's something I can use," and got every issue. For awhile. I soon discovered the articles were written by ppl who were total amateurs. They had Maybe tried this, or done it Once, and then working or not written it up and sold it! There's money to be had, and ppl "living off the land" are ipso facto broke.

Sadly I found this situation is rampant, especially on the internet where anyone can post anything at all, total BS or not. Moreover, the larger any one of these outfits are the more filler they need. And guess what?

Well, just a word to the wise.


A Serious Warning on "Virtual Button" Apps and "Accessibility Services"

This is going to seem three reviews in one. It's not. To be able to write a review a dot com (or other dot) must be used. As you can see from the 4 stars I don't have anything against Android developers. Except they teach ppl to build apps to use a service (built into all Android phones and computers) that holds a HUGE POTENTIAL FOR CRIMINAL USE. They plainly state the "rules," but since there is virtually nothing besides a slap on the hand back of the little enforcement there is, and none whatsoever outside of the "first world," this leaves misuse wide open.

This is a very dangerous situation, so take heed.

I'm talking about apps that offer "Substitute Buttons."

Their original use is to give handicapped ppl better access to attributes of phones and computers they can't use otherwise. To do this these apps BIND THE ACCESSIBILITY SERVICES to their app. This does Not mean a phone is now "accessible" to the user, it means Every Keystroke you make, Every Button you touch, Every Word you speak, is now running through the app! "Binding" means accessible to Them! Via the app.

In an honest situation this is not taken advantage of;

Site you visit, every form you fill out, every transaction you make, including your Bank Account(s), your Credit Cards, and all the pin numbers that go with them, are now accessible to the producers of the app.

Many of these apps have bad English versions of, "This app Safe. Not collect terminal information." Of Course a criminal would say that, but your info does not have to be "collected," only sent!

There are a slew of these apps on the internet, and two of special interest I picked out as an example from google store. Google has recently had an "episode" involving serious criminal activity such as that above. They are claiming to be dealing with it by, "Releasing an alternative to using Accessibility Services," but by word around the net this is stop-gap, unable to fulfill the need, and meanwhile (if ever) the only punishment for this is still what it always has been: being banned from google store. Big Deal! These ppl go to Android Developer, learn how to make these apps, take in a couple million stolen dollars in a month or two, and are Banned? I'm sure they laughed all the way to the bank.

There is a common problem, especially with older phones, that causes the Return, Home, and

Buttons to slowly fade into inoperable, that is the reason ppl go to these apps. Short of physical damage this is fixable, and I'll tell you at the end what I did to avoid these sketchy apps.

I'm not saying these two apps I've picked out are backed by criminals, but they do show good examples of what is very suspicious, and what you as a potential user should watch for if you're in the market for "virtual" buttons:

Back Button & Navigation Bar for Android are the two.

Tho I'm pretty sure these ppl have put out other apps as well, I'm also pretty sure Back Button No Root is not one of them. Just to avoid any mistakes. But I'm not real happy with Their stats either.

Looking over these two apps, I downloaded them, and the discovery of so many suspicious things is what drove me to do the in-depth research you see here. First, tho they try to make them look different, these are the same app. The name on BB is proviyon proguard, and insignia app on NBfA, But, both claim one million downloads, both are at gmail with No further address or info. Not even a country of origin, both use the same rocket logo, both are version 1. 0. 2, and released 6/26/17 and 6/29/27 two days apart. These are the same people faking two different apps. BB says it needs only 1 permission, NBfA says it needs No additional permissions. These Are Both Lies! There are actually 4.

First they suck you in, Then you find out. Oops, there Are more permissions "needed," but one at a time!

The first is only permission to use a tab, which is how they float the new button(s) window on top. That seems ok, But, the next permission is Hidden! You must scroll down to even kno it's there, and they are hoping you will never do that, because this is what you see on the page: The top is a paragraph (notice) saying "Privacy Policy" which, if you read it, is Goggle's, not theirs, because they don't Have a privacy policy, and it's not even a button! It's a Fake! But just below it is that one permission they are asking for (from above)... that seems so innocent... with "Accept" below that, and that's ALL you see. This is where the unwary go ahead and > Accept, just as they planned and designed for... they asked for one permission and there it is... or so it seems. But that's not me. I look, read everything (thus these reviews) and I'm not about to accept something that already had a fake privacy notice. So... I experimented a little, and Walla! It scrolled to More permissions needed.

Even then it didn't seem so bad (but wait till we get to the last one!), being "kill background processes" and I quote: "stop unuseful app services & save RAM memory." Well OK... until you think about it. I went, "Hmm... what apps?" What does the bad English word "unuseful" mean? Then I realized that whatever apps they chose to "kill" would stop working, at least until I reset my phone, at which time the app would only kill it again. What if I want those apps? Is that something you want? Depends on how hard up you are for this app I suppose. But whatever, I went on knowing I can always delete the sucker and start over if I have to.

So I got to the Third permission they were not going to ask for, "Ads from Google Admob." Again I had to go, 'Hmm." Why in blue blazes would That need a permission? Ads were admitted to from the start! Then I realized it's a cozen. Keep in mind these are layered. You can't even see the next till you've gone thru the first ones, and they get worse as you go, but at each layer they hope you stay stupid and go ahead and click Accept before you look any farther. Which is always Right there waiting. The cozen is this... ads don't need any "further" permissions, but to make it seem they are being nice about it they ask permission for This one. But why not just let it go? Because turning Google Admob loose on you Should need a permission, and maybe I'm wrong about it being unnecessary. Here's why: Google is bad enough, but Admob is a telling word; two parts, ad and mob. The ads we sign up for with free apps, but mob" is a whole 'nuther thing... just as it sounds, the entire Mob, (meaning "unruly crowd") of of advertising companies associated with google. Those of the "Cloud," will now get a shot at you. Or two, or a dozen, or... if you > Accept. There are not just thousands of them, there are millions. But whatever, that's just ads, so I went on again, but...

Uh Oh! Hold on here. There appeared a forth permission, (next page under) this time in Red! My phone is set to give me warnings of things "wrong" such as bad certificates and that... and now they want to, "Bind Access Services." To paraphrase the pop-up, this means that they, and Only they, via their app, can control All access to. And From. Your phone (or computer) from the Outside! Everything is very carefully worded to make you think this app is a stand-alone thing."app safe. Does not collect terminal data," when exactly the opposite is true. (This does not, however, cut out the phone's manufacturer or Google. Can you even imagine google giving up That?).

Now get ready for the last bit: When you > Accept it sends you to Settings, Accessibility... and there's this app! No other apps are there. It wasn't there before, but it is now, and they want You to turn it On (from Off). This means manually. But why? Why doesn't this app just do it? All other apps do. You've already clicked Accept, so why must You take that final step? Because IT'S A CRIMINAL ACT if they do it for you.

Remember this was a flag my phone threw up, warning me that if I > that final button all the above about bank numbers might create your worst nightmare, and You Are On Your Own if it does. You clicked the button. You gave them permission, and


Whether or not the people behind them are honest or criminals.

That said, here's how I fixed my phone when my bottom buttons started to falter: Aside from physical damage the problem is invariably lack of space. Lack of space also means that your RAM is also taken up by dealing with all that junk, and this is why the buttons go wonky before they fail entirely. The answer is to make space, and researching this I found out you don't have to off complete apps to do this, you can delete their data instead. I'm not sure why this is not commonly known, except it's against the best interests of google, and what you get with the flag "can't download, not enough space" is, "Here, off this app!" invariably choosing the last one you would pick; basically telling you that's all you can do.

So here's the thing... the cache is unimportant, safe to delete, but seldom has enough mb to matter. The data is collected bits mostly to help Them (google), and a tiny part that's your game scores and that. Deleting it does nothing at all to the app. It resets it to exactly as it was when brand new. Depending on the app then, the only thing(s) you May have to do is re-enter your settings, name and la la, maybe a password or two. Mostly you don't even have to do that.

Now, where Google is concerned, they are the biggest offenders, and where you gain the most. Don't worry, this is Google, rapacious to say the least, and their warnings that you'll be sorry if you mess with them are bs. They are not about to let You, their dim witted customer, go and lose Their data. So what happens when you delete some 150mb or a gig of data from google play service is nothing. All your account data is still there. Your gmail, et al, because They have it. The stuff on your phone is just like cookies, guides for them about you. The proof of this is that you'll have to do it again in a fraction of the time it took to get there the first time. Every update adds it's own, etc. Why/How? Because they Want it there to use, and will immediately start to replace it. What do you gain then? Well first you get the immediate megabytes. Then as those fade and you kill it again there's less to put back. The stuff before the last update being relatively useless to them. So by the second day you'll have, say, 140mb left out of the 200 you gained, but two days after the second kill you'll still have maybe 175 and gaining, because the return is slowing, and redundancy is left out. They don't give a hoot about redundancy when it's on You.;-)

So what I learned here is deleting google's giant pile of data fixed my phone buttons, and

Never even consider using one of the alternate button apps unless you're forced to.


Requested by Albert C.

The first clue to this site, and all their ilk, is where it says, "Easy Money."

Too good to be true always is.

The second and third clues are, "Sign Up," yourself, and "Refer Friends."
That's all your really need to know.

They are collecting personal information to sell!

Their real name is also a giveaway:
"For Money Only advertising media."

This means they sell your personal information, and that of any people you rope in, to companies that send out ads. In other words, if you sign up, they use you to create mailing lists for them.
What you are supposed to get is $5.00 for every new person you can get to sign up - the "Referral." They make it sound like every click of the link they give you counts for five bucks, but in the fine print you get nothing until the "referral" signs up and gives them their personal info. Then you've "earned" it, but you still don't get it until you have accrued $300 worth. THAT'S 60 PEOPLE! Before you get a dime. On top of that they "pay monthly." This means if you don't make your minimum of 60 people you get Zilch.

There's no telling from anything on this site (because there is Nothing on this site) if they allow last months signups to carry over to count for the next month, but I'll bet they don't.
Why? Because if you never get to 60 signups they pay you Nothing! Not a cent. It's well known that all the variations of these scams, such as "Addressing Envelopes" and the rest, take advantage of the fact that not one in a hundred people are capable of producing the minimum requirement. This means 99 out of that 100 are suckers that get nothing, ever, for signing up the twenty or thirty people they know. Are You good enough friends with at least 60 people. That they will give up their personal info for you, for free, so they can be inundated with ads, on the off chance you'll get five bucks? Well don't feel bad, no one is. The average person is actual friends with six to ten people, the rest are acquaintances.
As to using Facebook et al, sounds good, but think. You are advertising for people you barely know to give you something very personal to them for free, which is not free to Them. How many do you think you'll get of those? 60 per month? Dream on! You can't even offer them a lousy five bucks for it.
One last thing... check out the language use at this site: dollar signs After the amounts; "... just... and you will get earning..." They're foreigners! And without a single clue to who they really are or where they come from. I Clicked Home" looking for info on them, and guess what? That IS home. There is nothing else to click. It's pretty obvious why.

No Stars for Start Job online!

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